Talk:The Cavern Today

From MYSTlore

[edit] Licensing, and cleanups

Just a few points:

1. Wikipedia has an almost identical article, posing the question whether this was properly dual-licensed. If not, please do so ASAP. (Though I trust the Wikipedia article will get a vote for deletion, or for massive clean-ups, soon enough.)
2. The article focuses way too much on individual staff members, who are (at least to an extent) volatile. Details such as what school they currently attend might be relevant on their individual user and/or fan pages, but even that is questionable. They definitely do not belong on this page, and having a bullet point for each one of them is at least pushing it.
3. Yet on the other hand, the article focuses too little on its subject matter. The individual offerings are almost only mentioned in passing: "a monthly podcast (known as The Cavern Today), a newsletter (The Archiver) and a real-time news podcast (TCT Extra)". They should instead have their own headers, making for a much cleaner organization.

I'll implement some of the changes myself when I get around to it, unless someone else does. :-) Chucker 14:20, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

I did a major revision on this page. I agree that the staff listings are excessive for an encyclopedic article where the individual personalities aren't a central concern. Blade Lakem 20:53, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

Thanks! Much better. :-) Chucker 21:05, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

I reverted this edit for the exact reasons already laid out above. I don't know why it was submitted again, not to mention from the same IP address. Chucker 18:58, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

That would be me. Didn't think to check the discussion page before resubmitting the article. Though it would have been nice if someone told us our page was unacceptable before making such drastic changes. Too much has been cut out, but I'll look at it and resubmit a better one. Ken Ranos

Normally, such major revisions aren't made without prior discussion. I should also mention that I didn't make them; Blade did. Nevertheless, I do assume full responsibility for Blade's changes, as I called for them at the beginning of this discussion.

The main reason these changes were made, and so swiftly at that, is licensing. Wikipedia content is licensed differently, yet this article appears in a virtually identical manner on both websites. I had no information – neither over at the Wikipedia article, nor here – as to whether this article was explicitly dual-licensed, whether all authors agreed, or whether this was simply forgotten/ignored. In fact, right now, I still don't know. Are you the only author of the article? Do you agree with these terms (for MYSTlore) as well as these (for Wikipedia)?

With the licensing sorted out, revising the article becomes less pressing, but still something I'd like to see. As noted above, I found there to be far too much emphasis on individual staff members, mini-biographies of theirs, etc.

I also don't understand the need for an individual Relto screenshot. If the screenshot featured a gathering of tCT members, I could understand it, but per your own description, it appears to be merely a stock screenshot with a rather common perspective. It could be added to the Relto page. (It should also be categorized.)

As for licensing, my guess would be the "forgotten" category. This is not the first time this has happened, so I'm not entirely surprised. I will study the licensing agreements and let the rest of the team know what I find and what should be done about it.

This is certainly all open to discussion (that's the point of this talk page), but I would prefer if you worked off of Blade's version, rather than replacing it with one of your own. Chucker 19:38, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

I had replaced it because I thought something had gone wrong. The article suddenly changed, and I've known websites to suddenly revert when backups are put up. Since the article changed so quickly after I again edited it, that only reinforced that something was wrong.

I am not the only author of the page, but I do check on and update it fairly frequently. Another member wrote and submitted both the Wikipedia and the Mystlore articles at the same time and I've been updating both when needs be.

I also don't understand exactly why the Relto screenshot is there, I didn't put it in the original articles (nor do I remember whether or not it was originally in this one). That was the first author.

I did the major revision. So you can 'blame' me for it. There were licensing issues, certainly. Additionally, I agreed with the initial comments that the content was excessive. The Cavern Today does fine work, don't think that I believe otherwise. However, the length and depth of detail of a wiki article implies notability and importance. I cut it down to what seemed to be the key people in the group, from my reading of it. Whether that reading of it is accurate is up for debate, of course. But long membership rosters aren't appropriate for encyclopedia-style entries, nor is each person who worked on the Cavern Today notable enough to merit individual mention. Heck, we don't have a complete roster of employees of Cyan. I'm certainly sorry that you felt slighted by my editing. That was not my intent at all. Rather, taking a page from Wikipedia policies, I decided to make a bold edit. Blade Lakem 00:28, 31 May 2007 (CDT)